| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| disbron |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 06:20:09 AM
I've got a quick question for Squid, Change or Fatty? Since MS has dropped the hammer on cheaters. I've noticed that those GT still holding top spots on our leader boards. This is because the games that they have played haven't been updated. Is there any way that you guys could go through and clean those tags so it can reflect what there score is currently. I understand that you can’t remove them unless they request to be removed. But don’t you have the right to correct there tags. I know it might be a lot of work. Because you'll have to manually have to verify that they have a zero in certain games. But I find that it needs to be done, for the community. We need to have those individuals placed in there rightfully spot, at the bottom. |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ChangeAgent |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 12:54:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by disbron
I just wanted the leader boards to be accurate. I complete understand regarding the games played that’s not want I want fixed. It's the fact that some have reclaimed old tags and are displaying 22 games played compared to 210 on this site that’s all.
Well THAT is a completely different scenario... and in those situations we do want to allow those tags to start over. We are working on a solution for that :) As long as we can easily confirm it is a different person. Which is often easy to do. |
| Fshguy |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 12:23:44 PM
I think the leaderboards are going to be slightly inaccurate from the new people that join and are under represented on the leaderboards, but do not ask for a data refresh.
Of course I think the people that are more into completion, etc. are probably asking for data refreshes. |
| disbron |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 11:59:35 AM
Okay, well that's not what I was looking for at all really. I don't want to be a witch hunt. Nor do I want to cause you guys a great deal of work. I just wanted the leader boards to be accurate. I complete understand regarding the games played that’s not want I want fixed. It's the fact that some have reclaimed old tags and are displaying 22 games played compared to 210 on this site that’s all. Besides, those that have been caught cheating have been harassed enough. I was actually thinking that this would help them out by starting fresh. And not have everyone come across there tag and ask them how did you get so high on the leader boards. When your XBL profile says it's this.
Oh and Change I do appreciate you answering my questions. Thanks for all that you do.
|
| ChangeAgent |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 11:06:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by disbron
Understand that part that it would require a lot of work. But this is how I see it. Me being a gamer if I had an issue with some of my game stats. I would submit to you a request to get it fixed. Now if a know Cheater has Game data that need to be fixed. Why can't the community submit and email regarding there tags.
But if it is you asking for changes on your own data... that is fine... but what you are talking about could be a witch hunt. Every week is going to be "let's all vote for who on the leaderboard gets their data nuked" and then I have to PM or email them and try and let them know...
This stuff isn't just easy or we would have done it :) |
| ChangeAgent |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 11:03:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Thorpe89
So, you basically want to remember the cheaters? 
No it isn't about any one person's data... it is about all the data... it is just a complicated set of perspectives required... we have to take many things into account...
And the games they cheated are mixed in with the games they didn't cheat on... so again it isn't clear cut. Again I tell you that if someone played a game for 200 days... that is 200 votes for that game in the data... whether the person cheated on another game doesn't change the fact that they played the game 200 times and that means something... If you just go in and start deleting people and nuking huge swathes... hundreds of games with hundreds of "votes" it just starts messing other things up... reports and stats that we use for other things. |
| A Place for Us |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 10:50:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ChangeAgent
If their gamerscore drops to zero, that should take them off the leaderboard.... which leaderboard are you talking about?
Gamerscore or the others?
In the end we also see our site as historical... so we don't really want to nuke game information as that starts to destroy the historical information about gaming.
So, you basically want to remember the cheaters? |
| disbron |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 05:42:53 AM
Understand that part that it would require a lot of work. But this is how I see it. Me being a gamer if I had an issue with some of my game stats. I would submit to you a request to get it fixed. Now if a know Cheater has Game data that need to be fixed. Why can't the community submit and email regarding there tags. It's not like that person would do it, because they won't willing submit a game data fix. That would be like shoot them selves in the foot. What I was suggestion is something that you have already in place. Which is freezing people’s accounts that have been in active for some time? And if and only if they request as to why there accounts where frozen then you would treat them as a new member. We as a community could send you email regarding certain tags. If that would help you and the staff, then I’m all for it. |
| ChangeAgent |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 04:39:55 AM
This all seems like a simple issue from the outside looking in... but there is a lot of historical data that we use for all sorts of things... like aggregate game stats... and if we just go around nuking stuff, it hurts our data and introduces all sorts of other problems.
Before MS was doing everything, everyone was complaining about the GS leaderboard... that issue has been fixed... and now it is another leaderboard... the games played one :) The problem is, I don't want to get rid of that data! It is good historical game play data ad regardless of HOW they played them... Shukey has over 50-100 days played on a variety of titles... so playing a game and getting the gamerscore is a different thing... and it is reflected in different ways.
So honestly... we don't know the best way to handle it... because it would require us going in for every cheater (person who sees a zero score reset) and shoe-horning out their game data from their tag... it isn't a small project to do that and not break stuff.
Fatty Chubs is working on some ideas... so it isn't like we are ignoring it... but again... we actually want the data so we have to reconcile that with the games played leaderboard. |
| Wink |
Posted - Jun 05 2008 : 8:37:48 PM
Please let this die guys. The owners of 360Voice.com are aware of the issue and will do what it takes. The solution we end up with I am sure will deal with those that got scores reset by MS and those that change their tag and someone else gets it without letting the site know. |
| Slim Pizza Boy |
Posted - Jun 05 2008 : 6:23:36 PM
I don't understand how they are still on there. They have cheated and deserve no history |
| uliudo |
Posted - Jun 05 2008 : 01:45:47 AM
Don't know if it will help, but I just wanted to throw my support in for this too, I had noticed this a while ago when I started getting higher in the completion leaderboards and was going to post but saw a few out there already. I personally don't think it's necessary to label someone with a scarlet "C" as the score reset should be enough shame and enough of a warning sign to those who care, however for the leaderboards, there is no reason someone like this:
TheSwindler89 Score:60 Achievements:4205 Games 191 Completion:99.02%
should be in 1st place among those who have completed 100+ games.
One way to fix this would be to calculate gamerscore weighted by percent completion similar to how mgc.net does it i.e. 2000 gamerscore*80% completion= 1600 gamerscore and organize the completion boards by that statistic.
The only problem with this method is that it does not necessarily reward those with high percent completion (the point of the board) because some one with 51% completion on 100K potential points comes out higher than the person who had 100% on 50K points.
I don't know what information you are able to pull from MS, but they are able to show X of Y gamerscore on your games page:
http://live.xbox.com/en-US/profile/Achievements/ViewAchievementSummary.aspx
If you could get that same data and replace whatever it is you are using that would work even better and nothing but that would have to be changed. Same idea if it is possible to do so on a game to game basis (it is on xbox.com) to fix the genre badges and retail/arcade completed badges. Something similar could fix the other leaderboars as well.
I'm sure you would have done that a long time ago if you had access to it, but perhaps MS would add the option for it's community partners. |
| TX Eegras |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 2:55:20 PM
Or just a big red 'Cheater' bar above the blog (and in the XML feeds)? |
| disbron |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 08:51:17 AM
Well what I was thinking instead of an asterisk how about a freeze on there account with a note on the Blog page saying that if they want there account to be activated that they need to email you. And once they do that you treat them as being a new account. |
| Fshguy |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 08:43:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ChangeAgent
If their gamerscore drops to zero, that should take them off the leaderboard.... which leaderboard are you talking about?
Gamerscore or the others?
In the end we also see our site as historical... so we don't really want to nuke game information as that starts to destroy the historical information about gaming.
There's a couple things I've noticed:
People who switch their tags, his score is still there even if it doesn't exist on Live. Which I'm not sure, but badge processing doesn't happen on people that are not on Live?
http://www.360voice.com/tag/CommanderX
Historically speaking, do the people that have been caught cheating deserve to have the badges that come with it? It's not like these people actually played those games. It takes away from those few people that have earned those 2/3 star genre badges and high level completion count badges.
Because of the game data still being there, they show up on the completionist leaderboards.
Unless of course you want to put a big fat asterisk next to their gamertag, in any case, there's always the blog entries to show that data...
|
| disbron |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 08:03:29 AM
Well see that’s not exactly what I had in mind. If you go and look at Shuckey it has him listed as playing 212 games. But if you go to his XBl Profile you'll see that his only played 22 games. Now I know there is a way to reclaim old tags by changing your tags to a different name then waiting a couple of months to go back to it. He must have changed his tag before the ban hammer got to him. Then he reverted back to his old tag name. So according to this site he is ranked a lot higher than what he should be. |
| ChangeAgent |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 07:42:18 AM
If their gamerscore drops to zero, that should take them off the leaderboard.... which leaderboard are you talking about?
Gamerscore or the others?
In the end we also see our site as historical... so we don't really want to nuke game information as that starts to destroy the historical information about gaming. |
| SoupyC |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 07:35:57 AM
I decided to dig a little deeper and found the original threads...
This was the one I originally was thinking of and it wasn't Change at all...it was WINK, lol! Though Fatty did reply as you'll see.
And this (probably a better one) is another I had read (which I must've been getting confused) where both Change and squid talk about the issue.
SoupyC |
| disbron |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 07:13:12 AM
Thanks for the heads up on that. I wasn't aware that it already had been mentioned and that a game plan was in the works. |
| SoupyC |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 06:25:26 AM
I remember when this was a 'hot topic' when MS first started doing this that one of the guys (I believe it was Change, but I could be wrong) mentioned that they'd have to build in some sort of mechanics against a gamerscore decrease, as all the current ones check for an increase.
This was possibly in relation to the challenges, but I believe that they would have to build this also for the 360voice profile. That if a gamerscore decrease was detected, then it would reset their profile and rebuild it in some way, to reflect the way the gamercard currently looks.
They might still be working on it...but I do remember it being mentioned, so thought I'd add that!
SoupyC |
Copyright © 2006-2013 GamerDNA Media. All Rights Reserved.
LIVE GAMER, the Live Gamer logo, GAMERDNA, and the gamerDNA logo are registered or unregistered trademarks of Live Gamer, Inc. and its subsidiary, gamerDNA Media,
in the United States and/or other countries. Xbox, Xbox Live, and all other Xbox Live specific terms are registered trademarks of Microsoft Corp.
Other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.
