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Senior Gamer
USA
869 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 06:48:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
It is essentially Mass Effect with a JRPG skin. You go from world to world, taking up quests, outfitting your character, and running through zones killing people in real time combat. Same game.
I now have a sudden urge to try this game. Anything listed under JRPG is usually a pass for me but after reading this... |
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dacoto
 159,541
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Asshaticus!!
USA
2110 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 08:09:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SG Steelhead
quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
It is essentially Mass Effect with a JRPG skin. You go from world to world, taking up quests, outfitting your character, and running through zones killing people in real time combat. Same game.
I now have a sudden urge to try this game. Anything listed under JRPG is usually a pass for me but after reading this...
Play it on an alt profile first. Also, 250gs requires paying the monthly fee for the online aspect of it. It is an MMO at heart. |
"Must not everything, in the end, be swallowed up in death?"
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futiles
168,961
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
446
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Events Team
8794 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 08:41:32 AM
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| I thought it had gone Free-to-play. |
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 08:51:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
quote:
Originally posted by SG Steelhead
quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
It is essentially Mass Effect with a JRPG skin. You go from world to world, taking up quests, outfitting your character, and running through zones killing people in real time combat. Same game.
I now have a sudden urge to try this game. Anything listed under JRPG is usually a pass for me but after reading this...
Play it on an alt profile first. Also, 250gs requires paying the monthly fee for the online aspect of it. It is an MMO at heart.
Combat isn't what differentiates a WRPG from a JRPG. They are about narrative styles. Mass Effect's narrative style allows you to make Shepard your own, make the game your own and explore the world as you see fit. You can ignore things, you can do things in almost any order, heck, you can even "downsize" your squad. Phantasy Star, on the other hand, is a story being told to you. It is linear, and no matter what you do in the game, no matter what side quests you under take, you are still the character that the game writers created playing the story that they wrote. Even in the DLC, if you play the story mode, you are still playing a story that unfolds in the same way regardless of what you do. While you may be able to eventually chose a character class, the story never changes. On all levels, it is textbook JRPG. |
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futiles
168,961
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
446
Current Streak: 53
Longest Streak: 393
Events Team
8794 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 09:06:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Doug x360a
quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
quote:
Originally posted by SG Steelhead
quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
It is essentially Mass Effect with a JRPG skin. You go from world to world, taking up quests, outfitting your character, and running through zones killing people in real time combat. Same game.
I now have a sudden urge to try this game. Anything listed under JRPG is usually a pass for me but after reading this...
Play it on an alt profile first. Also, 250gs requires paying the monthly fee for the online aspect of it. It is an MMO at heart.
Combat isn't what differentiates a WRPG from a JRPG. They are about narrative styles. Mass Effect's narrative style allows you to make Shepard your own, make the game your own and explore the world as you see fit. You can ignore things, you can do things in almost any order, heck, you can even "downsize" your squad. Phantasy Star, on the other hand, is a story being told to you. It is linear, and no matter what you do in the game, no matter what side quests you under take, you are still the character that the game writers created playing the story that they wrote. Even in the DLC, if you play the story mode, you are still playing a story that unfolds in the same way regardless of what you do. While you may be able to eventually chose a character class, the story never changes. On all levels, it is textbook JRPG.
NIER is in WRPG, because it plays like a WRPG.
Thematically, it is JRPG all over.
Your definition features more on thematic elements.
So, which should feature more prominently in genre decision, thematic elements or gameplay? |
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dacoto
159,541
Zone: Recreation
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Asshaticus!!
USA
2110 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 09:31:40 AM
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| ^^ What he said ^^ |
"Must not everything, in the end, be swallowed up in death?"
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toddycst
180,855
Zone: Recreation
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Badge Team
USA
2135 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 09:38:24 AM
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^^What she said^^
quote:
Originally posted by futiles
I thought it had gone Free-to-play.
And as someone who has played it recently I'll tell you, it ain't free. |
Team Longshots
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 09:55:51 AM
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| NEIR has been an unfortunate victim of the perpetual backlog, so take this interpretation with a grain of salt. As I understand it, NEIR unfolds differently depending on how you play the game and that the experience can be different with subsequent playthroughs. If that is the case, it is still a WRPG. At the very least, it was an attempt at a WRPG. Granted, there are instances where the intent has been to create one style and it has gone into another (X-Men Destiny), which is why there is a thread like this for these discussions. In every genre there are games that can be put into multiple genres if you think about it. Mass Effect could be a Sci-Fi Shooter, Assassin's Creed could be Sandbox, LA Noire could be Point and Click. |
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Roku750
208,090
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Badge Team
1525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 10:07:27 AM
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| As someone who has beaten hundreds of them, my opinion is that PSU is definitely a JRPG. There are plenty of action JRPGs out there and PSU is a very cookie-cutter example of one of them. NIER also seem like a JRPG to me, but I haven't come close to finishing it so I defer to those who do and claim that it becomes like a WRPG in the end. |
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dacoto
159,541
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
243
Current Streak: 1
Longest Streak: 209
Asshaticus!!
USA
2110 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 10:19:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Roku750
There are plenty of action JRPGs out there...
So, perhaps we start looking at what makes an action/RPG...
PSU, Borderlands, Fallout(All), ME(All)...7 titles, not a bad genre...
But honestly, I thought the genres were based in gameplay style, not thematic elements and story-driven narrative... well, except for survival horror. That is pure thematic elements. |
"Must not everything, in the end, be swallowed up in death?"
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 10:38:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
quote:
Originally posted by Roku750
There are plenty of action JRPGs out there...
So, perhaps we start looking at what makes an action/RPG...
PSU, Borderlands, Fallout(All), ME(All)...7 titles, not a bad genre...
But honestly, I thought the genres were based in gameplay style, not thematic elements and story-driven narrative... well, except for survival horror. That is pure thematic elements.
...and Family and Rockstar and Karaoke/Rhythm and Brick...
Some genres are based on style, others are based on gameplay mechanics, some based on setting, others on target audience. There is no clear cut way to define all genres. And if there were, one genre would be approaching 100k. |
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futiles
168,961
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
446
Current Streak: 53
Longest Streak: 393
Events Team
8794 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 11:05:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Doug x360a
NEIR has been an unfortunate victim of the perpetual backlog, so take this interpretation with a grain of salt. As I understand it, NEIR unfolds differently depending on how you play the game and that the experience can be different with subsequent playthroughs. If that is the case, it is still a WRPG. At the very least, it was an attempt at a WRPG. Granted, there are instances where the intent has been to create one style and it has gone into another (X-Men Destiny), which is why there is a thread like this for these discussions. In every genre there are games that can be put into multiple genres if you think about it. Mass Effect could be a Sci-Fi Shooter, Assassin's Creed could be Sandbox, LA Noire could be Point and Click.
I have played NIER.
There are multiple endings, but each ending is scripted and unique to which play through you are on.
So, the first time you play, no matter what, you get ending A.
Second time, you get ending B.
Then C...
Each scripted, and based upon previous playthrough. |
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futiles
168,961
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
446
Current Streak: 53
Longest Streak: 393
Events Team
8794 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 11:10:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Doug x360a
quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
quote:
Originally posted by Roku750
There are plenty of action JRPGs out there...
So, perhaps we start looking at what makes an action/RPG...
PSU, Borderlands, Fallout(All), ME(All)...7 titles, not a bad genre...
But honestly, I thought the genres were based in gameplay style, not thematic elements and story-driven narrative... well, except for survival horror. That is pure thematic elements.
...and Family and Rockstar and Karaoke/Rhythm and Brick...
Some genres are based on style, others are based on gameplay mechanics, some based on setting, others on target audience. There is no clear cut way to define all genres. And if there were, one genre would be approaching 100k.
How can you claim Rockstar is thematic and style, and not gameplay?
Those games all play very similar, even the ones that try to more closely replicate actual playing, the overall gameplay is roughly similar.
No one is arguing against Family and Brick, in fact, there is consensus that they are not genres by many.
Karaoke/Rhythm is one that should (and hopefully will) be looked at. Dance games are likely to a point where they can stand alone. Karaoke games are plentiful enough, too.
Which genre would be approaching 100K? |
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 12:19:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by futiles
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Doug x360a
quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
quote:
Originally posted by Roku750
There are plenty of action JRPGs out there...
So, perhaps we start looking at what makes an action/RPG...
PSU, Borderlands, Fallout(All), ME(All)...7 titles, not a bad genre...
But honestly, I thought the genres were based in gameplay style, not thematic elements and story-driven narrative... well, except for survival horror. That is pure thematic elements.
...and Family and Rockstar and Karaoke/Rhythm and Brick...
Some genres are based on style, others are based on gameplay mechanics, some based on setting, others on target audience. There is no clear cut way to define all genres. And if there were, one genre would be approaching 100k.
How can you claim Rockstar is thematic and style, and not gameplay?
Those games all play very similar, even the ones that try to more closely replicate actual playing, the overall gameplay is roughly similar.
No one is arguing against Family and Brick, in fact, there is consensus that they are not genres by many.
Karaoke/Rhythm is one that should (and hopefully will) be looked at. Dance games are likely to a point where they can stand alone. Karaoke games are plentiful enough, too.
Which genre would be approaching 100K?
Given the difference in play styles between the original Guitar Hero games, the newer ones, DJ Hero and such, the mechanics are not the same. What is the same is the fact that while playing them, you feel as though you are playing Guitar/Drums/Turntable (except Rock Revolution, not sure why I felt like I was just playing notes on that one).
And RPG would be approaching 100K, if we went by the purest genres (Sports, RPG, Race, etc), since since between the two categories and all the games that feature significant RPG elements but present it in a different style (Like the most recent Assassin's Creed games, Dead Rising, Conan and others which feature leveling systems taken almost straight from tabletop RPGs), you would have probably 100k worth of games that people would push for. |
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Edited by - Capn Doug x360a on Apr 30 2012 12:20:42 PM |
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futiles
168,961
Zone: Recreation
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Events Team
8794 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 12:46:45 PM
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I would say the play mechanics are the same. Honestly, I see no difference from Guitar Hero 2 through Rock Band 3 except minimal improvements per edition.
Colored pegs floating on screen, holding buttons/striking bar/drum head at proper time.
Well, we don't have Pure Genres, and my goal would be to move AWAY from overall genres like "RPG" and towards more specialized genres that better distinguish a Fallout from a Final Fantasy or an Oblivion. |
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 12:59:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by futiles
I would say the play mechanics are the same. Honestly, I see no difference from Guitar Hero 2 through Rock Band 3 except minimal improvements per edition.
Colored pegs floating on screen, holding buttons/striking bar/drum head at proper time.
Actually, you brought up the biggest change a few days ago, when it shifted from a solo experience, where even the co-op was rather limited to a more party based game. But that occurs in a lot of different series. Speaking of which, is Party really a genre?
quote:
Originally posted by futiles
Well, we don't have Pure Genres, and my goal would be to move AWAY from overall genres like "RPG" and towards more specialized genres that better distinguish a Fallout from a Final Fantasy or an Oblivion.
And I'm not saying that we should have pure genres, I only brought them up because that is the only way to not have any argument over what game should go in what genre. And we do have genres that differentiate between Fallout and Final Fantasy, we're just using terms for them that some people have decided to interpret in a different way (remember the debate over "this game wasn't made in Japan?"). If you have 20 minutes to spare, you should watch the 3 part Extra Credits series on Japanese RPGs vs Western RPGs. It's pretty spot on. Just follow the link. |
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Badge Team
2022 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 1:04:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by futiles
Well, we don't have Pure Genres, and my goal would be to move AWAY from overall genres like "RPG" and towards more specialized genres that better distinguish a Fallout from a Final Fantasy or an Oblivion.
We do, its called JRPG and WRPG. Why do we call them JRPG and WRPG? Like Doug said, that is the terminology that has emerged over the last 10 plus years. Plus it fits nicely on the badge. THe smaller the title for badges the better.
As for this pure genre argument, if we went that route we would have about 6 genres around 100-150k in size, and about 35 collections. This less is more argument isn't making sense to me.
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Edited by - WolfWood37 on Apr 30 2012 1:05:51 PM |
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futiles
168,961
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
446
Current Streak: 53
Longest Streak: 393
Events Team
8794 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 1:20:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WolfWood37
quote:
Originally posted by futiles
Well, we don't have Pure Genres, and my goal would be to move AWAY from overall genres like "RPG" and towards more specialized genres that better distinguish a Fallout from a Final Fantasy or an Oblivion.
We do, its called JRPG and WRPG. Why do we call them JRPG and WRPG? Like Doug said, that is the terminology that has emerged over the last 10 plus years. Plus it fits nicely on the badge. THe smaller the title for badges the better.
As for this pure genre argument, if we went that route we would have about 6 genres around 100-150k in size, and about 35 collections. This less is more argument isn't making sense to me.
Good to see that you agree with me against pure genres. |
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 1:37:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by futiles
quote:
Originally posted by WolfWood37
quote:
Originally posted by futiles
Well, we don't have Pure Genres, and my goal would be to move AWAY from overall genres like "RPG" and towards more specialized genres that better distinguish a Fallout from a Final Fantasy or an Oblivion.
We do, its called JRPG and WRPG. Why do we call them JRPG and WRPG? Like Doug said, that is the terminology that has emerged over the last 10 plus years. Plus it fits nicely on the badge. THe smaller the title for badges the better.
As for this pure genre argument, if we went that route we would have about 6 genres around 100-150k in size, and about 35 collections. This less is more argument isn't making sense to me.
Good to see that you agree with me against pure genres.
I don't think I've seen a single post supporting pure genres. I don't think you are in any danger of seeing that change. With the number of games available, it makes no sense at all. |
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Edited by - Capn Doug x360a on Apr 30 2012 1:37:51 PM |
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Badge Team
2022 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 2:01:37 PM
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With regards to RPG's odds are we are going to have to move to another split. The first split was easy because it was easy to tell what was a JRPG and a WRPG.
With an extreme lack of JRPG games in general over the last 2 years, this has posed a small problem. WRPG continues to get huge while JRPG shows minimal improvement.
The way I look at the 2 genres now is:
JRPG is a heavily story driven game with a few set endings and a very set quest path(Star Ocean is a great example) with mostly turn based gameplay (Final Fantasy 13 is a good example)
WRPG is an open world /sandbox type game where you can do quests in almost any order and is a very heavy choice driven game that affects the ending. What I mean is Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, Borderlands levels of choice depth. (Now I know some JRPG's have some amounts of choice but nothing to the degree of something like Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect).
But now WRPG is getting so huge is that we may have to redefine what these genres are. Something along the lines of what was done with the 1st person shooter badge.
Maybe defining them more on story/open elements, Example:
Wasteland RPG (Borderlands, Fallout)
Space RPG (Mass Effect, Star Ocean)
Fantasy RPG (Final Fantasy, Tales of Vesperia, Bastion)
Medieval RPG (Oblivion, Skyrim, Fable 2 and 3, Dragon Age) |
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