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dacoto
 159,541
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
243
Current Streak: 209
Longest Streak: 209
Asshaticus!!
USA
2110 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 2:39:49 PM
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I don't think splitting WRPG into Space/Fantasy/wasteland is such a great idea.
The split should be based on gameplay mechanics. Who cares about the setting or what country it was made in. Just because something has been done that way for years doesn't make it correct in today's video game landscape. As games change and develop and grow, so should what is used to classify them. JRPGs are menu-driven, turn-based games. The art/story/music is secondary. Gameplay is select select select go. That's a core JRPG mechanic. Penny Arcade Adventures anyone? JRPG. Made in the USA. Your country of origin is invalid.
You have the shooter RPGs: Fallout, ME, Borderlands, PSU. Yes, PSU goes here because it has more in common with borderlands than it does with Final Fantasy/Eternal Sonata/Last Remnant/etc. Borderlands is a class specific gun game with RPG elements and skills based on weapon use and leveling up. PSU is a class specific gun game with RPG elements and skills based on weapon use and leveling up. Both take place in specific levels or zones, neither are "open world".
You have the Adventure RPGs: Oblivion, Skyrim, Infinite Undiscovery, etc. Games that involve roaming the countryside getting quests and having real-time combat.
Lastly you have your Hack n Slash Dungeon Crawlers: Daggerdale, Torchlight, Bastion, etc. |
"Must not everything, in the end, be swallowed up in death?"
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 2:41:14 PM
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Fantasy RPG vs Techno-Modern-Sci-Fi RPG (I think that last one needs a snappier name) might work. Take Mass Effect, Fallout, Borderlands, Alpha Protocol, Too Human, Deathspank (I think, haven't played them) and make them the basis of the new genre. Marvel Ultimate Alliance would be the trickiest, since it is very much fantasy, but the setting is quite modern. Fantasy would still be on the large side, but managable.
The seperation would be "do you shoot a gun?" Though Fable has a gun... |
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dacoto
159,541
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
243
Current Streak: 209
Longest Streak: 209
Asshaticus!!
USA
2110 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 2:42:56 PM
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| Oh, and Wolfy, Show me where in Borderlands your choice matters a flying F. There is no choice in that game. Either you do missions or you don't. Borderlands is not a deep game involving choice and customization. It's not even heavy on the story. It's a big pile of fetch quests with mild character specific actions. Nothing you do matters. |
"Must not everything, in the end, be swallowed up in death?"
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 2:46:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
JRPGs are menu-driven, turn-based games. The art/story/music is secondary. Gameplay is select select select go. That's a core JRPG mechanic. Penny Arcade Adventures anyone? JRPG. Made in the USA. Your country of origin is invalid.
While the game may not have been made in Japan, the term still applies for thematic reasons. JRPG and WRPG don't necessarily refer to where they were created anymore, it is a historic designation. |
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dacoto
159,541
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
243
Current Streak: 209
Longest Streak: 209
Asshaticus!!
USA
2110 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 2:49:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Doug x360a
quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
JRPGs are menu-driven, turn-based games. The art/story/music is secondary. Gameplay is select select select go. That's a core JRPG mechanic. Penny Arcade Adventures anyone? JRPG. Made in the USA. Your country of origin is invalid.
While the game may not have been made in Japan, the term still applies for thematic reasons. JRPG and WRPG don't necessarily refer to where they were created anymore, it is a historic designation.
Which is my point: Historic. It's time to grow and adapt to the needs of today.
Also, MUA is dungeon crawler RPG. Easy to place. |
"Must not everything, in the end, be swallowed up in death?"
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Badge Team
2018 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 2:58:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
I don't think splitting WRPG into Space/Fantasy/wasteland is such a great idea.
Notice I didn't say just WRPG, all JRPG's would be reclassified as well.
quote:
The split should be based on gameplay mechanics. Who cares about the setting or what country it was made in. Just because something has been done that way for years doesn't make it correct in today's video game landscape. As games change and develop and grow, so should what is used to classify them. JRPGs are menu-driven, turn-based games. The art/story/music is secondary. Gameplay is select select select go. That's a core JRPG mechanic. Penny Arcade Adventures anyone? JRPG. Made in the USA. Your country of origin is invalid.
What did I say JRPG's were? Turn based gameplay. And where are the 2 penny arcade adventure games? JRPG. How often does an American game company make RPG's in that style for console? Exactly...
Not all genres CAN be separated on gameplay. Go take a look at all the shooter genres, historical, modern, and sci-fi. A mix of 1st person and 3rd person. The separation point is story/theme elements. However the action shooter genre is based on gameplay elements. Scoring points for kills.
Then there is survival/horror, you want to tell me what the gameplay type is for that genre, go ahead.
Not all genres can be defined by gameplay.
quote:
You have the shooter RPGs: Fallout, ME, Borderlands, PSU. Yes, PSU goes here because it has more in common with borderlands than it does with Final Fantasy/Eternal Sonata/Last Remnant/etc. Borderlands is a class specific gun game with RPG elements and skills based on weapon use and leveling up. PSU is a class specific gun game with RPG elements and skills based on weapon use and leveling up. Both take place in specific levels or zones, neither are "open world".
You have the Adventure RPGs: Oblivion, Skyrim, Infinite Undiscovery, etc. Games that involve roaming the countryside getting quests and having real-time combat.
Lastly you have your Hack n Slash Dungeon Crawlers: Daggerdale, Torchlight, Bastion, etc.
Again, my story driven idea was just one idea I threw out there. Just like this is an idea.
Oh as for borderlands, maybe its not choice driven, but it is a sandbox, do whatever the hell you want when you want like WRPG with a wasteland theme. |
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Edited by - WolfWood37 on Apr 30 2012 2:59:32 PM |
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Advanced Gamer
1028 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 3:11:13 PM
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I don't completely agree with dacoto (for example, I think WRPG should be split in twain, rather than in three, and from what I've seen PSU would still better fit in JRPG), but I think overall the idea of the split of "Shooter" RPG and "Adventure" RPG (dungeon crawlers can fit in the latter) is a decent idea...and leave JRPG as JRPG.
There are guns in Fable, but it would still be adventure, given this split, which I think would work to manage the size of one of the largest genres rather well. |
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Badge Team
2018 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 3:13:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
Which is my point: Historic. It's time to grow and adapt to the needs of today.
Oh the needs of today.
You mean where everything is a 1st/3rd person hack and slash shooter in space/middle east/medieval fantasy where you can level up attributes, select weapons and armor, and choose your ending? |
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 4:26:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WolfWood37
quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
Which is my point: Historic. It's time to grow and adapt to the needs of today.
Oh the needs of today.
You mean where everything is a 1st/3rd person hack and slash shooter in space/middle east/medieval fantasy where you can level up attributes, select weapons and armor, and choose your ending which may or may not be a single line changed in the final speech based on one single choice that was painfully obvious during the final conflict?
Fixed that for you. The illusion of choice is there to add the illusion of replay value in most games.
And I said Assassin's Creed had heavy role playing elements because I'm pretty sure it would have been too obvious if I had said Call of Duty has heavy role playing elements. |
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MrGompers
162,150
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
316
Current Streak: 234
Longest Streak: 289
Average Gamer
USA
325 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 09:37:42 AM
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The game "NHL 2K9" should be removed as it's no longer possible to complete since the servers were shut down.
Specifically, these 2 achievements are no longer attainable.
"critic" & "alter ego"
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futiles
168,886
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
445
Current Streak: 50
Longest Streak: 393
Events Team
8794 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 11:31:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MrGompers
The game "NHL 2K9" should be removed as it's no longer possible to complete since the servers were shut down.
Specifically, these 2 achievements are no longer attainable.
"critic" & "alter ego"
Honestly, at this point, you no longer really even need supporting evidence to convince anyone that a 3 year old sports game needs to be removed.
Sad... |
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 12:02:15 PM
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| After playing Braid, I'm wondering why it is still in Puzzle? It seems like it would fit perfectly in Platformer. The puzzle aspect doesn't seem too different from a game like Raskulls, and there are many comparisons that can be drawn between it and the 800lb gorilla of the genre: Mario. |
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Roku750
206,800
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
834
Current Streak: 905
Longest Streak: 905
Badge Team
1523 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 12:11:46 PM
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| There's no danger in Braid whatsoever. Most of the "enemies" in the game are only there to help you solve puzzles by killing them strategically. Other than that, the game's all about using time powers to solve puzzles. |
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Badge Team
2018 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 1:05:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Doug x360a
After playing Braid, I'm wondering why it is still in Puzzle? It seems like it would fit perfectly in Platformer. The puzzle aspect doesn't seem too different from a game like Raskulls, and there are many comparisons that can be drawn between it and the 800lb gorilla of the genre: Mario.
I had this argument with the badge team during the last update, I lost.
Also NHL 2k9 will go with the summer update. |
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 1:30:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WolfWood37
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Doug x360a
After playing Braid, I'm wondering why it is still in Puzzle? It seems like it would fit perfectly in Platformer. The puzzle aspect doesn't seem too different from a game like Raskulls, and there are many comparisons that can be drawn between it and the 800lb gorilla of the genre: Mario.
I had this argument with the badge team during the last update, I lost.
Also NHL 2k9 will go with the summer update.
It definitely has puzzle aspects, they just don't seem to be as much a part of the game as the platforming. Most of the puzzles involve precisely timed jumps, much like the puzzles in Raskulls or Splosion Man. |
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Badge Team
2018 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 1:48:37 PM
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| Yeah, its one of those games that fits both genres. More people feel that its more of a puzzle than platformer, but I agree with you captain. |
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Senior Gamer
United Kingdom
945 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 2:15:17 PM
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Um, if a game fits in two genres...why not add it in both? There are so many games that have different significant elements of two types of genre, it just seems silly to HAVE to stick it in just one genre. That's alright for the collection badges isn't it?
And before people say what about the buffet blah de blah you could just pick a genre for that game to be scored (out of the two it was put in obviously).
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JB330 | joshnorm | LAFTA | Chunkeh Munkeh
Be part of my random stats on TA
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Badge Team
2018 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 3:02:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chunkeh Munkeh
Um, if a game fits in two genres...why not add it in both? There are so many games that have different significant elements of two types of genre, it just seems silly to HAVE to stick it in just one genre. That's alright for the collection badges isn't it?
And before people say what about the buffet blah de blah you could just pick a genre for that game to be scored (out of the two it was put in obviously).
Because currently the way badges are coded, we cannot add games to more than 1 genre.
Fsh would need to do a complete rewrite which would take weeks and he just does not have the time right now. |
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dacoto
159,541
Zone: Recreation
Total games played:
243
Current Streak: 209
Longest Streak: 209
Asshaticus!!
USA
2110 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 3:25:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WolfWood37
quote:
Originally posted by Chunkeh Munkeh
Um, if a game fits in two genres...why not add it in both? There are so many games that have different significant elements of two types of genre, it just seems silly to HAVE to stick it in just one genre. That's alright for the collection badges isn't it?
And before people say what about the buffet blah de blah you could just pick a genre for that game to be scored (out of the two it was put in obviously).
Because currently the way badges are coded, we cannot add games to more than 1 genre.
Fsh would need to do a complete rewrite which would take weeks and he just does not have the time right now.
Funny, this is the second time a complete re-write has come up in as many weeks. Perhaps it's time we honestly address this? Complete overhaul of the entire badge system from head to toe.
You're looking at things like:
Proper genres vs. collections. (Family, Brick, DW, Retro and Console Classics are collections not genres)
Proper badge scoring based on scale of ownership, with tiered counting.
double dipping.
5 star system.
With the sheer number of games in genres at this point, having 50-60 smaller, more focused genres would go a long way to really display someone's play style. Not to mention enable people who focus on certain aspects of gaming be rewarded for their dedication, instead of punishing them by having the "sort-of" fits... |
"Must not everything, in the end, be swallowed up in death?"
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Edited by - dacoto on May 01 2012 3:30:53 PM |
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Senior Gamer
775 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2012 : 3:37:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dacoto
quote:
Originally posted by WolfWood37
quote:
Originally posted by Chunkeh Munkeh
Um, if a game fits in two genres...why not add it in both? There are so many games that have different significant elements of two types of genre, it just seems silly to HAVE to stick it in just one genre. That's alright for the collection badges isn't it?
And before people say what about the buffet blah de blah you could just pick a genre for that game to be scored (out of the two it was put in obviously).
Because currently the way badges are coded, we cannot add games to more than 1 genre.
Fsh would need to do a complete rewrite which would take weeks and he just does not have the time right now.
Funny, this is the second time a complete re-write has come up in as many weeks. Perhaps it's time we honestly address this? Complete overhaul of the entire badge system from head to toe.
You're looking at things like:
Proper genres vs. collections. (Family, Brick, DW, etc are collections not genres)
Proper badge scoring based on scale of ownership, with tiered counting.
double dipping.
5 star system.
With the sheer number of games in genres at this point, having 50-60 smaller, more focused genres would go a long way to really display someone's play style. Not to mention enable people who focus on certain aspects of gaming be rewarded for their dedication, instead of punishing them by having the "sort-of" fits...
If double dipping were implemented, would it not be possible to bring in a parent genre system? For example, the RPG debate. Have, lets say 4 genres for RPGs, all of which combine to a massive singular RPG genre. Or even now, with the 4 shooter genres, 2 music genres and such.
This is of course all theoretical, since it would take hundreds or even thousands of man hours to completely redo the system at this point. |
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